Attorney Chris Lee on Doing It Right: Confidence & the Power of the Process

He lost all his confidence in high school. Then Chris Lee discovered what happens when you fall in love with the process.

Greg Weimer sits down with Chris Lee — Managing Director and COO of Dickie, McCamey & Chilcote — to talk about losing direction, finding it in law
school, and building a three-decade career on showing up and doing things the right way. Chris shares the story behind the Chi-Chi's hepatitis A
outbreak, the lunch table where real mentorship happened, and the father who set the standard he still follows.

In this episode, we cover:

01:08 - Intro
01:39 - Welcome and Chris Lee's background
03:33 - Losing confidence in high school
06:03 - Meeting Christy and turning it around at IUP
07:06 - Duquesne Law School and finding his process
10:11 - Clerking at Dickie McCamey and firm culture
12:13 - The Chi-Chi's hepatitis A outbreak
15:20 - Career growth from national outbreaks
16:09 - Mentorship, in-person culture, and the PPG Place table
19:10 - Christy's role and the cost of building a practice
21:03 - Father Don Lee — Navy vet, federal judge, life model
24:43 - Catholic Charities and giving back to the community
27:23 - Legacy, grandkids, and what matters most

Guest: Chris Lee, Managing Director & COO, Dickie, McCamey & Chilcote 

Host: Greg Weimer, CEO, Confluence Financial Partners

Topics: Leadership, mentorship, confidence, law, food safety, Catholic Charities, family legacy, Pittsburgh

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I went to class every day. I studied till nine o'clock at night. I studied every Sunday, all day, and I really put in the time. And I had never put in the time before ever. Right, right. Fallen love with the process. Yeah. Like when I watch the great coaches, yeah, they love the process.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Yeah. Like if there's the and then it feels to me like, okay, so that you love the process, and then you got to win with the test.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

We pride ourselves on being good people. We have a reputation that we're when we go to court, we're going to be prepared. Um, we're going to do what we need to do to protect our clients, but we're going to do it the right way. In 2003, uh Chee Cheese, which was a rest national restaurant chain that had a location in Beaver Valley Mall, um, had an enormous uh hepatitis A outbreak involving a thousand people. Uh, and I got the case in part because I had represented a large retail chain. So you're dealing with um the FDA and CDC, uh, you're dealing with customers, people who are very sick. Um, some people unfortunately died.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

Hello and welcome to Living Your Legacy Podcast. I'm your host, Greg Weimer, founder and CEO of Confluence Financial Partners, where our mission is to help people maximize their lives and shape their legacies. On this podcast, we will unpack the stories, strategies, and mindsets of individuals who are intentionally shaping their lives and the impact they leave behind. Learn what drives these individuals to push forward, to create, and to give back. And and for for the listeners, uh Chris Lee is the managing director, COO of Dickey McCamey. Um, he's also the chair of the firm's or vice chair of the firm's executive committee and is the chair of the uh food and beverage industry group. By the way, all of that's great. Uh thank you. If you if you read your bio, top attorney, all that stuff. We can talk about if someone has a bellyache after they go to a restaurant, you call Chris Lee because he's the guy that that defends all the national chains or a lot of the national chains. It's all really fascinating, by the way. But oddly enough, that's great, cool. That's not why I wanted to talk to you today. Like that's really cool. But I watch Chris Lee. There's something about you that maybe the listeners can uncover, maybe I'll uncover today. Um but you just seem to do it right. You just seem to do it right. And I want to find someone that says something bad. Maybe it'll happen today. If you have something bad to say about Chris Lee, give us a holler. But um, in fact, before we start, I said to Chris, I said, What um what is it that you want to talk about today that you know that that what do you want to talk about? Like what what's it all about? And I thought your answer was so good. It's like, I don't know. If I can just be helpful to someone else, that's a great thing. So let's talk a little bit, we'll get into your career because I think you have an incredible blueprint of how you've become an attorney. But I know in conversations with you, um there have been some ups and downs in your life, and you haven't always had it together as much as you do today. So you want to talk about, you know, did you always have the confidence of poise of the current Chris Lee?

SPEAKER_00 3:35

Yeah, sure. Well, first off, thank you for having me here today. It's truly an honor uh to be here. Uh, I think we've known each other almost 15 years now, uh, and it's just a pleasure to not only work with you, but just be friends. Thank you. Uh I appreciate it. Thank you. Um yeah, you know, I I think the the one thing that uh people may not, you know, realize about me, and and I think that maybe it's not uncommon to some people, but you know, life hasn't always been, you know, stars and stripes and and and uh and the way it is, certainly right now. Um I'm from uh Bethel Park, uh born and raised. I'm the youngest of seven kids. Uh went to Catholic grade school, high school, and then on to IUP. Um, and then when I was in grade school, I was, you know, by the way, America is an amazing place.

SPEAKER_01 4:28

You got a kid from UPJ interviewing a kid from IUP. And people asking me, listen, this is amazing.

SPEAKER_00 4:38

Get not wrong. Yeah, I love America. Absolutely. Yeah. But when I was in grade school, I was a I was a good student. Uh I was a leader. I was uh student council president, and then I went to high school and I just I lost all my confidence. And I don't know why. I I don't know why. I think you know, it was such an adjustment going from you know a smaller grade school to a larger school. That makes sense. Um you go from being, you know, pretty good football player to being among a ton of great football players just to just to start that process in high school. Um and and it just I just never really recovered um elite.

SPEAKER_01 5:18

I I I went listener, because I think being the high school kid, whoever talks about great it was, we are similar. For me, it was a challenge, the same. I didn't do as well as you did in grade school, but my high school was experience was the same. Um, it is, it's tough. Yeah, and and and like it's not permanent, it's tough. You got to grind it out. Right. So I'm sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 5:41

No, that's you're right. It it's and it's not, you know, I had friends and I had fun times, and sure, it wasn't just you know dark at all, but it just wasn't what it had been. Yeah, you know, and then I went to IUP and uh first two years, maybe didn't focus the way I should focus. Um, didn't get the grade. Focus, you just weren't focused on what you should be focusing on. Yeah. I I joke with people, I was an accounting major and I had two problems. I didn't go to class and I didn't do my homework. Other than that. Yeah, other than that, you know, what are you gonna do? So so really it was I met my wife Christy, and uh she's the best, you know, we were talking and and uh, you know, what are you gonna do? You know, I'm a police sign major. Yeah. And I said, Well, I'm gonna go to law school. And then my grades that second semester sophomore year, I hit rock bottom. Yeah, I met her and I started working. And uh, and I slowly started getting some success from working. Um, but it really took off in law school.

SPEAKER_01 6:41

But but but but you went to IAPO and GPJ. It's another thing. Allow your children to go somewhere where they can succeed and excel. You know what I mean? Like where they just because I think so many people like I could have gone to Princeton maybe if I had better grades, but I'm not sure Princeton would have been as good for me. Sure. Right? You were comfortable and you could excel in in it IUP, and that's wonderful, and you found it.

SPEAKER_00 7:06

Yeah. It and then unfortunately, I got into Duquesne law school, and uh I went to Duquesne, and I was absolutely scared to death because but you had your confidence back at that point. I did, not to the level I do now, right? But uh it but I was concerned, you know. I went to IUP and I thought there's these kids that went to Ivy League schools, went to Penn State, I went to private schools. I don't know, and my dad had gone to Duquesne.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

And you deal with them now, like you and I both run into people from all those schools today, and it's it's fine. Like it's good, yeah. Like it's fine. Yeah, right. But yeah, like the mistake's gone, no offense, but I get it. It's a different experience, but yeah, I got it.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

Yeah, yeah, whatever. Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:51

So then you went to Duquesne and and you found your you found your mojo?

SPEAKER_00 7:54

I did. I worked very hard and uh and got great grades. And for the first time in a long time, I was um made editor of the law review. And that was the the time I had ever really led an organization from the time I was in grade school, yeah. You know, I had always just kind of been more of a follower. Um, and that was a great experience for me.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

So okay, so you you clearly, I mean, you you turned it around, you turned your confidence around. How'd you do it? Do you remember? Was it your self-talk? Like it was truly just hard work. Um, I so the results, so so what what came first? The results or the confidence? Did the confidence create the results, or did you get results that created the confidence?

SPEAKER_00 8:37

The results created the confidence, no question about it. I, you know, for people that may not be familiar with law school, in each semester, uh you have just one test. So it's you don't have tests throughout the semester. You have one test, typically three hours long, where you either, you know, perform or you don't perform. So there's a lot of pressure. Sure. Um, and for the first time, it really felt natural to me uh from an academic standpoint. It it felt like I belonged and it felt like I really understood how to think like a lawyer again, yeah, after after my first year in law school. But it it in but it was I went to class every day, I studied till nine o'clock at night, I studied every Sunday, all day, and I really put in the time. And I had never put in the time before ever. Right, right. Fallen with the process.

SPEAKER_01 9:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:30

Right? Fall right. Yeah. It's a process.

SPEAKER_01 9:32

It's the process. Like you, you, you, you study for the exam, you work till nine, you nine o'clock. It's the pro like falling. Like when I watch the great coaches, yeah, they love the process. Yeah. Like if there's the and then it feels to me like, okay, so that you love the process, and then you got to win with a test. By the way, you you didn't make a million dollars. You got you um, I mean, not to minimize your accomplishment, but you did good on it. You you you nailed a test, yeah, but it's a win. Right. And then and then it's another win, and then it's another win. And then someday people call you lucky. That's how it goes, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:06

Um, so then you come out if you come out of uh Duquesne. And I I so uh the way it works after my second year I clerked at Dickey McCayman Chill Coast.

SPEAKER_01 10:16

It is such a Chrisly story that the loyal guy never leaves and goes on to run the organization. It'll be that's the Chris Lee thing.

SPEAKER_00 10:23

Well, thanks for saying that, but it's it's a great place that this firm has uh just supported me. Um you say it's a great place.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

There's a lot of firms out there. What makes it a great place? What what about the culture?

SPEAKER_00 10:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

And how do you how do you create it? What what about it do you love?

SPEAKER_00 10:38

It it is so we pride ourselves on being good people and we treat people the right way. And that's not only people who work with us, our employees, our partners, but it's also opposing counsel. Um, we have a reputation that we're when we go to court, we're gonna be prepared. Uh, we're gonna do what we need to do to protect our clients, but we're gonna do it the right way. Yeah, we're gonna do it in a professional way. Yeah. And and it's you know, we're gonna we're gonna do it the right way. That's really yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:07

It's it when when it it uh how your peers, how you work with your peers is really important, how you work with the opposing counsel. Um, I remember you telling me that about opposing counsel, how um you have a great relationship with them.

SPEAKER_00 11:19

Yeah, that's very important to me. And so if I if I tell them something, I'm gonna do this or I'm gonna, you know, give you information, they trust that I'm being honest with them, I'm being straightforward with them. You know, sometimes we can't turn over information, but you know, it's because we have a good basis for doing it. And so you build that trust up.

SPEAKER_01 11:39

So you can be a good person and do the right thing in difficult times. And and and and I think the many lessons of Chris Lee, um, it feels like I'm talking about Bruce Lee, but the many lessons of Chris Lee, I mean, that that's like one of them, right? I mean, it for me, it's like, um, and you can talk a little bit about your your specialty and it'll come to light for the listeners, but um you truly do work hard at doing the right thing in a very difficult moment. So, with that being said, do you want to talk a little bit about the firms that you tend to represent?

SPEAKER_00 12:14

You know, in terms so beginning around um in the late 90s, I had the opportunity to represent a very large national um retail quick service chain. Uh because my neighbor from growing up in Bethel Park ended up as a paralegal uh at this corporation. Really? Yes. And this was a big case. Yeah, it's well, this is that's when I started doing the kind of a quick service food-related work. So E. coli, seminali, like stuff like that. Yes. And then in 2003, uh Chi Cheese, which was a rest national restaurant chain that had a location in Beaver Valley mall, um, had an enormous uh hepatitis A outbreak involving a thousand people. Uh and I got the case in part because I had represented a large retail chain. Um, and um, you know, when you deal with at that time, that was the largest outbreak in U.S. history, just in terms of the number of people. And so it was on national news. Uh so you're dealing with um the FDA and CDC, uh, you're dealing with customers, people who are very sick. Um, some people unfortunately died. It was very tragic.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

So how do you find so how do you find um how do you find how do you find your purpose? Like your defend, you're obviously um representing the the defendant, correct? Correct. Yeah, in a sense.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

And um how do you find your purpose in doing that and feel like well you can, you know, I uh as you mentioned earlier, you can do both. You can provide an excellent defense to your client and do the right thing. And you know, fortunately Chi Chi's had a lot of insurance coverage. And so over a year and a half period, we sat down with 600 customers and we resolved their cases. And we'd go in a conference room and we'd hear their story, and there were remarkable stories, and they were nice people, and we were able to reach an agreement on a number and settle and hopefully help them move on with their lives.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

And so that was actually very fulfilling to sit down and experience they're not intentional, bad things happen, yeah, and you can still with empathy and compassion and do the right thing and try to find the truth.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

Right. But you know, and protect your client.

SPEAKER_01 14:50

And protect your client.

SPEAKER_00 14:50

And in that situation, you know, there was it was green onions that was the culprit. And God, I don't like that. And so, you know, that one of the things you do is you look up the chain, you look at the next supplier up, and then they look at the next supplier up, and then eventually they settle on who was really at fault. Well, the slaves have taken care of the the customers, yeah. Um, they did the right thing.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

And that really started your career of because I read I read last night of all of the different organizations you represented over the years. It's it's it's really impressive.

SPEAKER_00 15:21

Thank you. It it it did. It really led to another large outbreak in this area involving a convenience store chain. Um, again, one of the largest outbreaks in U.S. history, eight months after Chi Cheese, and again, national news. And so, because of the experience in Chi Chi's, I was hired in this Southern outbreak. And then because of those two outbreaks, I started to get hired in outbreaks across the United States.

SPEAKER_01 15:45

So if you go to a restaurant and get a bellyache the next, we got your guy. I'm the guy, but you just got to put a bunch of people together, right? It can't be one person. All right, so amazing career. Um tell me some of the traits that you think allowed you to be successful in your career. Because you really have had a lot of success.

SPEAKER_00 16:07

Well, I appreciate you saying that, but I I feel like um my firm, first off, in terms of how they develop lawyers, uh early on I was given opportunities to handle cases, to go to court to be in front of judges, to to try cases. Um, and that's more difficult these days, but because clients are less um willing to try cases. But I I got great experience from the firm, great leaders at the firm who great mentors who really helped me develop as a lawyer.

SPEAKER_01 16:39

Well, the the mentor part is so important. And I worry with people working from home that they're not like, I mean they're not gonna get that.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

Right. It's the it's the accidental bumping into somebody walking down the hall and say, Oh, I have this case and I need your help on this case, or a more senior lawyer, hey, I need your I need your help. I have a question. I don't know how to handle this expert. You know, this expert's gonna say X, Y, and Z, I don't know how to attack the expert in this deposition. Can you help me? And when you're sitting at home and, you know, and you have to be willing to make the phone call or set up a meeting, it's just more hoops to get through. And I think it really doesn't help the development of young lawyers.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

Yeah, I I mean I may have gone to UPJ, but I I my real education came from the mentors I've had in my career. And I'll put my mentors that taught me up against anybody else's in the country. And and you don't get that sitting at home.

SPEAKER_00 17:39

No, no. When when I first started at Dickey, we were in two PPG Place, and PPG Place had a huge um food food court, and you were pretty much guaranteed from 11:30 in the morning till one o'clock in the afternoon.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

Who what fast food place table? Wait, what fast food place would possibly ever want to see give you food?

SPEAKER_00 18:04

So so I do remember, so you guys had a table where you had a table. Yeah, and we had a table, and you could show up and you knew there was gonna be a lawyer from our firm there. So, and that was the way you you've you know traded stories about hey, this deposition, or hey, this judge ruled this way, and I have this trial, and you know, that's where you got all the stories, and you you you were mentored, yeah, you know, every single day. Yeah, and now you're that guy. Yeah. I try to be that guy, and uh, and I try to, you know, create situations where we have like a food court, you know, in our in our firm and in our kitchen and get lunch and sit down and and try to mentor people, but it is more difficult with the post-COVID world.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

It is. So I know you said, you know, you've had great mentors. And but you really do need a support system, you need partners. And I just know that you and I talked about um your relationship with Christy, and I feel the same about Lori. You want to talk a little bit about the importance of having support at home and and having Christy by your side the whole time?

SPEAKER_00 19:10

How that's helped. No question, I wouldn't be where I am today without Christy. No question. Starting in college, law school, and then just my career. Yeah, as my you know, when you're when you're young, yeah, you're trying to work, you're trying to get home, see the kids, you're you're just you know, you're just going from one thing to another. And then when I started doing all these cases, especially outside of Pittsburgh, um, just having her support and her okay that hey, it's okay to go travel and be gone all week. Um, uh sometimes I'd say I'd come home on Monday night and I'd say, sorry, I forgot to tell you, I'm going to Chicago the next three days. See ya. And she understood and she supported me and and was just fantastic. Um, it just in how the the example she set for our kids while I was gone. Right. You know, on on those uh trips.

SPEAKER_01 20:08

So when you say like I'm h I try to get home for dinner most nights, right? Right? To have balance, you have to be at times out of balance. Yeah. Fair? Yeah. And so like I think I think that's one of the things that some folks miss that um I want balance in my life. Well, I get it. I do also, but I think people see Chris Lee now and say, wow, what a wonderful life. And they they didn't see you saying goodbye to Christy on Monday night, going to some faraway place um to build your practice.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

Yeah. And I sometimes not even have time to call home. Right. Uh just because you're just so busy. But uh it was worthwhile. Uh and I would never have been able to do any of this without Christy. No question about it.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

So I know, I know uh your father was in the business also. Yes, and he was a mentor, correct?

SPEAKER_00 20:58

Yeah, big mentor.

SPEAKER_01 21:00

Talk about some of the things you learned along the way from from your from your dad.

SPEAKER_00 21:03

Oh, my dad, Donnelly, uh just a great good, good, good person. Um, he went to law school. So my my my dad enrolled in or uh enlisted into the Navy coming out of high school, Central Catholic, 1945. My grandfather dies two years later. He's the only male in the house, comes home, and he goes to Pitt in two years on the GI Bill, and then he went to Duquesne Law School at night for four years, and ended up number one in his class. Wow. Um and he built he built a firm, a smaller firm, did a lot of different work along the way. And then eventually he was appointed as a state court judge and then a federal judge by the first president Bush. But, you know, just in terms of how he handled himself, he was just a nice person. Um, he treated everyone with respect. Um, he had a line, you know, there was definitely a line. Push him beyond that line and he could be firm. Um, but he was genuinely a nice person to people, and that was true even on the bench. And I had other I've had other lawyers say, you know, he never forgot being a lawyer, he treated everyone with respect. Um, and then just his involvement. We were very involved at St. Thomas More. He was uh head of the athletic fund, he was uh did fundraisers. We had this thing called the corn roast. Um, then he was on the board at South O'S Catholic High School, then Sea LaSalle, then St. Francis. He always did great legal work, but he was also civic minded and community-minded. Um, but it was just the way he do you ever reflect?

SPEAKER_01 22:40

Like, do you ever reflect how similar you are? I mean, because you you have a great career, but you also, whether it's Catholic charities or um, you know, I mean, you you you or or choke kids sports or getting home for dinner, all the things I know about you. Do you ever do you ever reflect how similar you are?

SPEAKER_00 23:03

No, I mean, you know, being a federal judge is a pretty big deal.

SPEAKER_01 23:06

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. No, but I mean, just have the way you've lived.

SPEAKER_00 23:09

I mean, no, definitely like when you're explaining him, I'm I'm hearing you. Yeah. Well, he was home. You know, he was home most nights. What time do you get up? Yeah, he would get up. What time did you get up? Uh 4 30, 4 o'clock. You get up then? Yep. And he got up then. He got up then. And then he would be home by six for dinner. And uh, and I tried to be home by six for dinner. Uh, when the kids when we were young, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

Yeah, we talked about that. I yeah. Um, Bill Mahaffey, I remember, if you're listening, UBS, I remember him saying to me, Your kids don't miss you in the morning, they miss you in the evening. Get up earlier, and I did. So, like you, get up early, get a lot done, try your best. Not every night, try your best to be home in the evening when we had kids at home and coach and all those things. But it does, it's just it's interesting that you you you you seem to me to have a parallel life of your dad. Did you ever feel pressure to go into well, you started out in accounting. Not did you ever feel pressure to go into law because of your dad's experience?

SPEAKER_00 24:06

I didn't. I had I had this idea that um I would go to law school and join his firm and you know, uh, and I had another uh older brother that had gone to law school, graduated a few years ahead of me, and then yet another brother graduated the same year with me. They both went to night school. And I thought, you know, it would be Lee, Lee and Lee, you know, and uh and it didn't work out that way because he became a federal judge. And and um I'm sure it would have been great, but I I think it ended up being great for me to end up with Dickie McCayman for sure.

SPEAKER_01 24:38

Well, I know your career has allowed you to make an impact in other areas of the community. What are some of the things you do care about that you're spending time on?

SPEAKER_00 24:46

Well, one of the things that I've gotten involved with over the last five or six years is Catholic charities. And uh post-COVID, they started a uh a fundraiser called Hope from Home. Um, and uh and it's uh a great way to give back to the community. The one thing I I had no idea about Catholic charities, I didn't really know about it, even though Catholic school, Catholic grade school, high school. Um, but their impact to the community, and 90% of the people that they serve are not Catholic.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

Is that right?

SPEAKER_00 25:18

Yeah. Seven counties, 90% are not Catholic because they're trying to make an impact to the community. So being part of the Hope from Home has been a great experience. Um, and we uh actually the firm has expanded uh our supportive Catholic charities. We we helped them this year with the Christmas toy drive and we provided our office and everything. But um it just seems like it it's bringing me back to my grade school and my my my uh Catholic roots. Um and it just it just feels like the right way to make an impact on a community.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

Isn't it? I'm involved in South Hills Catholic Academy, which has just been the same thing. I went to Catholic grade school, Catholic high school. Um and going back to those roots, it's been fun.

SPEAKER_00 26:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:04

It it's it's it's been a lot of fun in the relationships. It's it's been great. It is one of the things you say, oh, Dickie McCainy, how you guys have supported it. Um one of the greatest things about having a local firm, regional firm, if you will, is the impact you can make on the community. It really, I mean, you're you're big enough to make a difference, but you're not so big that you become callous to the charities around you.

SPEAKER_00 26:28

Yeah, I think that's I think that's very true. And I think that you you see it, I see it as managing director talking to other lawyers, and um, when they you know talk about, hey, can we support this organization? And it's that local connection and the local impact that we've been able to make because of our size, I think.

SPEAKER_01 26:48

It's a blessing. Yeah, it's an absolute blessing. By the way, for the listeners, some of you may know this. Chris and Christy's son, Morgan Lee, works for Confluence. We're delighted. And he sort of has your work ethic. Yesterday was a Sunday. Um, and I I send out Sunday messages. I'm sure I like them more than most people, but I send out Sunday messages just because I'm in my mind's racing about stuff. First response yesterday, Morgan Lee. Right and early? No, it wasn't early. No, no, no. I no, I don't do not on Sundays. I I did it, yeah. Usually I leave a message on a Sunday afternoon. When you look back, um what's your legacy? Do you think about it?

SPEAKER_00 27:28

Uh I hope that people think I made a difference um in their professional lives and then in the community. Um, and I'm very proud of my kids and my family, for sure. And they're proud of you. Yeah well, I appreciate that. But uh, I have two great kids in Morgan and and Aaron and and uh and grandkids, and and I hope uh how I leave a legacy with them as well. It's being a pap. What do they call you? They call me pap. Is it the best? It is the greatest thing ever. It's the greatest thing ever. You can't understate how much it means to me.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

Yeah, most things are overstated. Um, the two that are not, life is short. So living with intention, really important. Um, but grandchildren are the best.

SPEAKER_00 28:15

They are, they're the best. Yeah, we have three yeah, Morgan's kids, and it it it's exhausting, but it's the best.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

I know it's absolutely the best. Chris, thank you so much. Really enjoyed the conversation. And um, you're certainly an amazing attorney and have done had an had truly a tremendous career. Um, but what you've done for Pittsburgh, how you lead yourself as a dad, um, and I really do appreciate our friendship. So thank you so much for the visit. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 28:45

Oh, thanks, Greg. Thank you for being uh for including me and having me here, and always great to be with you. Thank you. Thanks.